Has some wear from an anti-backlash plate. Select this link to see what models that used this Speed transmission. M20/M21. well i checked what gear ratios i have in my saginaw and i came up with 1st - 3, 2nd - 2.25, 3rd - 1.5 and 4th 1. now i know thats not accurate so i looked at saginaw ratios and came up with 1st - 3.11, 2nd - 2.20, 3rd - 1.47, 4th - 1.00. how will these ratios perform? We promise not to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the Power Automedia Network. Typical automatic transmissions have 4-forward gear ratios , a Reverse, Park, and Neutral gear. They were popular in the Muscle Car era. 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Of course, that was many years ago. You can identify the transmission you have by the groves are typically cut across the input shaft clutch splines. The Muncie also has a 7 bolt side cover; however, the Muncie reverse lever is found in the extension housing and features an aluminum case. The Muncie’s appearance, design, and operation did not change much during the transmission’s use in GM production cars. The 1964 through 1968 Muncie side covers had a stud coming out of the side cover that secured the linkage arm via a nut. These grooves are there to indicate the ratios of the gears inside the transmission. Transmissions customized to fit your tracks rules at no extra charge. You can (usually) tell the ratio by the number of rings around the input shaft. 3.11. These grooves were cut into the input shaft so assembly line workers at the plant could easily identify which input shaft should be installed in a particular unit. Made up to Order. This was used in A-body and F-body cars and Corvettes into the early ’80s. Gear ratios are a very important aspect of transmission selection and transmission design. Are Your Hot Rod’s Fluids Ready For Summer Cruising? The M20 and M21 used a gearset with a more angled tooth design on each gear (left). Ratios can help determine proper application as well as the torque capacity of a transmission. The Saginaw four speed transmission is a transmission that was used in a variety of GM cars in the 60’s. 351TRAN SAGINAW TRANSMISSION - 3 SPD 351-189-3 Line. Now first gear, 29 tooth main shaft gear 3rd in line, 29 teeth divided by the 15 tooth cluster gear it connects with and get 1.93. © 2017 Power Automedia. L30". New OEM AC Delco gears are used in Muncie, GM T10, GM Super T10, Saginaw 3 & 4 speed, GM T5, Powerglide, 200 & 350 transmissions. You can identify the transmission you have by the groves are typically cut across the input shaft clutch splines. All rights reserved. Borg Warner once again started supplying four speeds to GM in the early ’70s with the release of the Super T10. This tranny gets your car out of corners like a bullet. Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment. This is a large reason why some guys will not rely on transmission identification by the input shaft grooves. The M22 Rock Crusher used a gearset that features less of an angled-tooth gearing (right). The easiest was is by knowing the construction of each unit, and the differences are obvious. Old Man Engingeering is the leading manufacturer of winning high performance transmissions and gears in NASCAR racing. A better choice for handling is the 12.7:1 ratio boxes found on some of the higher performance factory muscle cars from the 70s and 80s. This will help you pick the right size tires, transmission and gear ratio combination for your classic. The first and most obvious has to do with the size of a car’s engine. 1.00. Unlimited DVR storage space. Other IH trucks use wide ratio T-18s. The Muncie four speed was produced in two ratios: the wide ratio (M20) and the close-ratio (M21). Determining the ratio of each gear in your standard transmission is actually pretty easy. As a rule of thumb, they were not built to handle the kind of power that a Muncie transmission could handle. Casting Number Year Notes, 3831704 1963 7/8-inch cluster, small bearing, 3839606 1963 – 1964 7/8-inch cluster, 3851325 1964 – 1965 7/8-inch cluster, 3864848 1965 7/8-inch cluster, 3885010 1965 – 1967 1-inch cluster, 3925660 1968 – 1970 1-inch cluster, 3925661 1970 – 1974 1-inch cluster, Casting Year Notes, 3831731 1963 Thin fin tailshaft, driver’s side speedometer, 27 spline, 3846429 1963 Thin fin tailshaft, driver’s side speedometer, 27 spline, 3846429 1963 – 1965 Thick fin tailshaft, driver’s side speedometer, 27 spline, 9779246 1964 – 1965 Pontiac Catalina long tailshaft, passenger’s side speedometer, 27 spline, 3857584 1966 – 1970 Passenger’s side speedometer, 27 spline, 3978764 1970 – 1974 Passenger’s side speedometer, 32 spline. Performance Built Jeep A9or 32RH Automatic Transmission and Torque Converter. The SM4enjoys a very low compound gear at 6. Many enthusiasts mistakenly refer to all Muncies as Rock Crushers, and this is just not appropriate. The ratio of the four-speed transmission placed in any car was usually determined by the engine size and rearend axle ratio. While the M21 and M22 did have the same gear ratios, the M22 did utilize a cluster gear with the gear teeth having different tooth angles. It’s no secret that the Saginaw and Borg Warner transmissions were not built to handle the kind of power that a Muncie transmission could withstand. Thanks guys! For the amateur, however, around $0will buy a safe, backyard paint ... Weaver Transmission Service is also a preferred installer and repair facility for JASPER Transmissions. The lightest rotating set of gear on the market. 1.68. The only way to know for sure is to have them checked. GM T56 Installation Overview. Can you change gear ratios in a manual transmission for better mileage? Even the Muncie has its limitations, but they are significantly higher than the Saginaw or Borg Warner. Can someone help me? Great for any type of race car that require a stock transmission. Not only were they both popular transmissions in musclecars and Corvettes, but many were even used after the musclecar era. th350 , 2-speed powerglide automatic, super t10, muncie m20 m21 m22, saginaw, & t5 manual transmission speedometer gear 18t brown fits gm (3987918)(8g-18a) … Let’s find out who is responsible for these. If you are not sure how to distinguish between an M20, M21, or M22 Muncie, knowing what to look for can be tricky. 2.84. The advantage is the that the gear ratios are closer together, which makes for better drivability. The gearbox on the right has grooves in the Input Shaft making it a 3. 1.00. Muncie Transmission ID and Ratio Guide. Chevrolet Saginaw 3 & 4 Transmission Parts . One of my more memorable races at Dallas International saw me miss 3rd gear. SHIPS VIA UPS, IN BOX. The Muncie utilized seven different input shafts. But, those built between 1963 and 1965 will not have any rings around the input shaft. Some models may be special build. Not only are the Saginaw and Borg Warner side cover and tail housings constructed of different materials, but the reverse shifter arm of a Saginaw is on the side cover while the T10 is located on the tail housing. Quality Saginaw 3 & 4 Manual TransmissionParts the First Time. So now that we have given you some insight into identifying the GM four-speed transmission, the next time you are scouring the swap meets or local Craigslist ad, you’ll have a better understanding of what you are looking at, and you’ll get exactly what you want. The numbers 3831707 and the shifter linkage being attached with studs and nuts make this a side cover for an early Muncie. The special 3-speed H.D. TRANSMISSION: 1ST: 2ND: 3RD: Saginaw 3-speed: 1st: 2nd: 3rd No Lines (grooves) 2.85: 1.68: 1.00 1 Line : 2.54: 1.50: 1.00 2 Lines : 3.11 : 1.84 : 1.00 3 Lines : 3.50 : 1.89: 1.00 ... and 1:1 Third gear ratios. Heavy Duty full synchromesh 3-speed Borg Warner T16 delivered as the standard transmission when the SS 396 series was ordered. Unfortunately the 3 speed got away from me before I could pull the speedometer gear. The Muncie is made of aluminum, and will not be rusty looking. Do you know how to tell the difference between a Saginaw, a T10, and a Muncie four speed? The casting number 3925660 denotes this as a 1968 – 1970 Muncie with a 1-inch cluster shaft. Manual Trans Reference GM 3, 4, 5 and 6 speeds V24. Because different transmission gear ratios can greatly affect a drivetrain combination, it’s important for anyone performing a transmission swap to know the gear ratios of the gearboxes you might be installing in your vehicle. All transmissions with a 26-spline input shaft used a 32-spline output shaft, and all those with a 10-spline input shaft was paired with a 27-spline output shaft. As a rule of thumb, the Saginaw and Borg Warner transmissions should live a long and happy life when used in cruiser applications. When looking at a Saginaw transmission, the front input shaft will likely have one or multiple grooves cut around its diameter. During the run of General Motors’ inclusion of four speeds in their cars, there were three variations possible. When you find a used four speed, a Saginaw and Borg Warner transmission will likely be flash rusted because of the cast-iron construction. We will safeguard your e-mail and only send content you request. 245 1. Shop here for the greatest selection and the lowest prices. First came the Borg Warner T10 beginning in the late ‘50s. For small-block V-8s, like the 35 the three-speed used 2. Easily identified by the reverse gear being on the main case instead of the tail housing. Gear Ratios. Encuentra reseñas, números de teléfon... El mejor mecanico a domicilio en Phoenix Hableme para su reparacion de auto Le falla su carro y no tiene idea que tiene. The TH400 length and mount dimensions are for the “shorty” tail-housing model. Its possible to change the first gear ratio in a saginaw transmission from 3. Take Advantage of Our Expertise on the Saginaw 4 Manual Transmission By 1963, the General had developed and worked with the Saginaw Corporation to develop a proprietary four-speed (based on components used in the Borg Warner transmission). Did you know that there are various models that were used in various cars? There are a couple of different debates that typically occur when a bunch of car guys get together. The materials used in case construction mean that if you find one of these gear boxes in a shed or barn, the Muncie will probably be smooth and covered in grease and/or oil, while a Borg Warner or Saginaw transmission will usually be coated in a light layer of rust. what rearend and tire size should i run, its gonna be daily driven but i still wanna have fun. If a car came with an axle ratio of 3.73 (or numerically higher), it usually came with a close-ratio transmission. Its possible to change the first gear ratio in a saginaw transmission from 3.55:1 or 3.10:1 to 2.54? The 1969 and later models use a bolt to secure the linkage to the transmission. Build your own custom newsletter with the content you love from Chevy Hardcore, directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE! i think my rearend is a … New Process four-speed manual transmissions came in three versions. See all 16 photos. If you're running a rig with a Saginaw 3- or 4-speed transmission and need repair or replacement parts we've got quite a few here in our inventory of manual transmission parts.We've got GM Saginaw transmission parts that fit both 3- and 4-speed manual shifters such as this bearing kit #BK115WS for 1966-1985 model years and includes … There are several gear ratios for the Saginaw’s. The unit on the left has groove on the Input Shaft making it a 2. An advantage to the IH 4WD T-is most of them were mated to a Dana transfer case. These grooves are there to indicate the ratios of the gears inside the transmission. I multiply 1.47 times 1.14 and get basically 1.68! It is easy to determine whether you have an early or later model Muncie four-speed transmission by the way the transmission’s linkage arms are attached. 2 Lines. Inside the N-series M23 Transmission from Auto Gear Engineering. If it starts with an S, you are looking at a three-speed Saginaw. Differentiating is easy, as the Muncie has seven bolts holding the side cover, and the Borg Warner uses nine. We said almost all Muncie transmissions had a groove(s) around the input shaft, and that is because most close-ratio Muncies will have one ring around the input shaft. That being said, there was a second, close-ratio version (M22) that was developed to survive duty behind engines with a higher torque output, and was known as the “Rock Crusher.” This version was offered in high performance big-block cars starting with the 1965 Corvette. The two transmissions are functionally equal. For small-block V-8s, like the 350, the three-speed used 2.54:1, 1.50:1 and 1.00:1. They were popular in the Muscle Car era. Two areas often overlooked when selecting a transmission are gear ratio and center-tocenter distance. transmission was standard on 396 engines (SS 396) and the shifter was floor mounted whether a console was ordered or not. There are 2 Saginaw 3 speeds that come with first gear ratios of 3.11 and 3.50, and there are lots of Saginaws out there. Option-MACHINED OUTPUT SHAFT FOR LONG YOKE. Free online flash calculators for determin ring and pinio ratio, final drive ratio and gm powerglide gear ratios. We need to make note that the early Muncie transmissions offered between 1963 and 1965 utilized a 7/8-inch countershaft in the cluster gear, and those manufactured between 1966 and 1974 used a 1-inch diameter shaft. 17 tooth purple dimension -1.75 x .305 x .810; 18 tooth brown dimension -1.75 x .305 x .810 I changed out from a 3 speed saginaw to a 4 speed saginaw. While the big-block vs. small-block variable is one that has two groups of passionate followers, the other reflects the way in which the driver selects transmission gears. The number of times the engine turns past to make one revolution of the drive shaft equals your 1 gear ratio. Muncie 3transmission you currently have. We have salvaged more than one Saginaw from cars like the Vega and Monza. The M22 was produced in and for other GM divisions. The Saginaw is often mistaken for a Muncie. Saginaw 4-speed gear ratios. Household sharing included. 2.54. 1 ring 4 speed transmissions. Our t... Start your search by typing in the business name below. 1st/2nd gear lever is on the right. Technical Speed Gear Ratios. Each is available in three different gear ratio spreads. ... it will easy install wherever a Warner Gear or Saginaw … Muncie M62/M64 — 3-speed longitudinal transmission made by GM; Muncie SM420 — 4-speed manual used up to 1967, very similar to sm 465 except small changes to gear ratios and location of reverse. 0 grooves: First 2.84, Second 2.01, Third 1.34, Fourth, 1.00, 1 groove: First 2.54, Second 1.84, Third 1.44, Fourth, 1.00, 1 groove: First 2.54, Second 1.84, Third 1.32, Fourth, 1.00, 2 grooves: First 3.11, Second 2.20, Third 1.47, Fourth, 1.00, 3 grooves: First 3.50, Second 2.46, Third 1.65, Fourth, 1.00. Standard Saginaw 3-speed transmission. At age now, I doubt I could do that these days. 1 Line… – and traction is enhanced, you can figure on eventually breaking the transmission. The minimum thickness allowed for a disc brake pad is approximately one millimeter. The Borg Warner has a 9 bolt cover. Guía con miles de negocios en Mesquite, TX. Third gear on cluster has teeth: 1: 2. We’ve sourced more than one Saginaw from Vegas in junkyards. Grinding, squealing and vibrating are some signs your brakes may be failing. While casting numbers are a definite guideline for identification, a quick, somewhat accurate way to quickly identify Muncie transmissions involves the input shafts. I mean they haves higher gear ratios than Vengines. Starting with the 1966 models, the wide ratio versions got two rings around the input shaft, and the M22 input shaft had no rings and looks like a 1963 through 1965 wide-ratio input shaft. This gear kit will work only on transmissions with. 1.84. The casting number 3857584 tells us that this is a 1966 or 1970 Muncie tailshaft. Chevy Hardcore NEWSLETTER - SIGN UP FREE! First Gear can be Removed-Specify on check out . But in non-performance applications, they were still a good transmission. Below you will find a detailed list that includes complete rebuilt transmissions, bearing rebuild kits with and without synchro rings, seals and bushings, individual bearings, synchro assemblies, sliders, rings, forks, gears, shafts and bearing retainers. Saginaw was widely used in Pontiac and Chevy small and mid sized cars including Tempest and Camaro (among others) you totally dropped the ball on Saginaws, here’s the whole story. No Lines (grooves) 2.85. When looking at a Saginaw transmission, the front input shaft will likely have one or multiple grooves cut around its diameter. Your first-gear ratio is 2.52:1. How does a car gets different torques and speed whenever required? However, finding one of these transmissions now at a swap meet or salvage yard is getting harder and harder. Depending on how you ordered your musclecar in the ‘60s and early ‘70s, you might have even benefitted from the famous Muncie transmission. Saginaw 4-speed gear ratios. If the case, side cover, and tail housings are made solely of aluminum, well my friend, that would be a Muncie. Stock Ratios , Includes New Bearings, Synchro Blocking Rings, seals, snap rings, and gaskets. Late style, notice where reverse is. A car that has to go off-road i.e. The 1969-1976 Camaros, 1964-1976 Chevelles, Malibus and Monte Carlos used an optional quick ratio 12.7:1 unit. Tooth count 25 21 19 15 15. This is the world’s largest trade ... Click to or purchase a membership. The article claims the Borg Warner was used in some Chevy cyl. 284TRAN SAGINAW TRANSMISSION 3 SPD 284-168 Ratios-No Line . speedometer gear in saginaw transmission. If the car has high performance upgrades that substantially raise the engine’s torque output above 300 to 350 lb./ft. While vehicles with an axle ratio of 3. Click the link! © 2020 Power Automedia. The Saginaw 4-speed transmission was also used and shown for "M20 PROD V-8 ENG & R.P.O. List of GM transmissions. 1.00. If it has a cast iron case with an aluminum side cover and tail housing, that will mean you have found a Borg Warner. The M22 was designed as a road race transmission, and the straighter angle of the gear teeth produced less heat and less end-loading of the gears. Post Jun 15, 2015 #1 2015-06-15T19:04. Now it get the ratios of 2nd and 1st by dividing the bigger number by 1.47. in 2nd case I get 24 divided by 21, cluster gear and get 1.14. “Torque” and “Bhp” we often hear these terms whenever we talk about an automobile vehicle. Saginaw 4-speed. How to for street, dirt track racing and drag racing. More manual transmission information, including gear ratio and ID information, is located on the transmission page. 1.00. Muncies are the hot tip, since they usually were used with high performance engines. Saginaw Specifics. If the case and side cover are made of cast iron, that would make it a Saginaw transmission. You will need a fine scribe or marking pencil that will leave a legible mark on the transmission housing and shafts and a friend to handle counting on the other end of the transmission. His passion for performance got him noticed by many locals, and he began helping them modify their vehicles. Comparison images courtesy of Hurst Shifters. Casting Number Notes, 3831707 Early side cover; 1963 – 1965, 3884685 Early side cover; used with 3857584 tailshaft housing, 3950306 Late side cover – no switches, 3952642 Late side cover with transmission controlled spark switch, 3952648 Late side cover with transmission controlled spark switch, 335308 Late side cover with neutral safety switch. Use 2nd gear only in the pits or under yellow flag conditions. azmusclecar. I can buy a saginaw transmission but this was for an Zylinder car. Lin-line six-cylinder engines. All wide ratio transmissions are designated M20 and close ratio transmissions are designated M21 or M22 … Manual transmission cases can be identified by the casting numbers and casting dates. 245 1. Muncie 4-speed Identification All rights reserved. While it’s obvious that the four speed will use three shift-linkage arms and the three speed will have two, if the first letter is R, then you have found a four speed. Saginaw 3-speed. The low-gear 435 was found on 1964 to 1972 vehicles. There may be other transmission models in which these lengths may vary, but these are the popular models. D & L Transmission To order call 1-631-351-4837. New 4 speed Saginaw cluster gear. Great for any type of race car that require a stock transmission. Images courtesy chevelles.com. New Process Gear NP435 - 4-speed longitudinal transmission used in a select handful of 67-72 GM pickups Many enthusiasts feel that for a car to be a true musclecar it must have a four-speed transmission. 0 grooves: First … azmusclecar. The discussion about whether to use a four-speed or an automatic transmission has been going on for as long as anyone can remember, and we see no end in sight. Answered by a verified Chevy Mechanic We use cookies to give you the best possible experience on our website. … To add a little confusion to the mix, there were Borg Warner Transmissions that feature aluminum cases and cast-iron side covers. 2-3 days lead time. PART NUMBER 1 & 2nd RATIOS . If you are looking for information on what gear ratios your manual ransmission has in it or looking to do a conversionthe following table should provide the basic information you need. You get instant a... Professional automotive diagnostic software. While the four-speed manual transmission was a staple in many Chevrolet musclecars, even many of the General’s “other” car models were equipped with a manually-operated gear selecting device. 1 Line . supercars, requires good amount of power or speed, Now the questions arise how does a car gives these torque and speed output? 3.50. It would be very helpful to know either how much torque these trannys were designed for or what GM engines they were used with. Almost all Muncie transmissions were delivered with a groove(s) on the input shaft and counter gear.
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